Running Premium

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ItsaRuck! said:
If I'm reading you correctly, you agree that premium in a regular low compression engine gains little vs cost.
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I would agree that there is little gain, if you are looking for better fuel try finding a station with no ethanol in it. Ethanol runs at a richer ideal condition (9:1 A/F, compared to gasoline which is 14.6:1) and therefore hurts mileage, also by itself it has an octane rating of 110 fyi. The part I disagree with is that running premium is catastrophic for a motor that only requires 87.
 
O_Danny_Boy said:
The part I disagree with is that running premium is catastrophic for a motor that only requires 87.
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I only know what happened to my Ram truck by doing it. So I not only have what the industry take is to go by, I have personal experience.
 
i once did 3 full tanks of premium in my Explorer and saw no difference, except in how much i was spending per fillup
 
ItsaRuck! said:
I only know what happened to my Ram truck by doing it. So I not only have what the industry take is to go by, I have personal experience.
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What is your "industry take"? Do you have a paper with some proof? Something written by someone with some tech expertise? In all my education and experience, as well as scanning my personal research materials I have found nothing to support that so I am still inclined to disagree.

The quality not necessarily the grade of the fuel or sensor issues for instance could both cause similar problems. There are too many variables, if anything it is the opposite. Running low octane fuel in a high compression motor can cause the motor to need to run rich to reduce knock and may result in being so rich it leaves carbon deposits.
 
O_Danny_Boy said:
What is your "industry take"? Do you have a paper with some proof? Something written by someone with some tech expertise? In all my education and experience, as well as scanning my personal research materials I have found nothing to support that so I am still inclined to disagree.

The quality not necessarily the grade of the fuel or sensor issues for instance could both cause similar problems. There are too many variables, if anything it is the opposite. Running low octane fuel in a high compression motor can cause the motor to need to run rich to reduce knock and may result in being so rich it leaves carbon deposits.
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I've already covered my reasoning in the other thread that pertains to gas. I've read many articles in magazines and know many mechanics (one with the Unser Racing Team) that have formed my opinion, as well as my personal experience.

At this point I think all we can do is agree that we disagree on the reasons. It all comes down to should you really try to out guess the engineers of these engines and pay more for fuel with no real benefit, only perceived?
 
ItsaRuck! said:
I've already covered my reasoning in the other thread that pertains to gas. I've read many articles in magazines and know many mechanics (one with the Unser Racing Team) that have formed my opinion, as well as my personal experience.

At this point I think all we can do is agree that we disagree on the reasons. It all comes down to should you really try to out guess the engineers of these engines and pay more for fuel with no real benefit, only perceived?
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I agree, y'all are beating a dead horse here. :lol:
 
Kenny C said:
I agree, y'all are beating a dead horse here. :lol:
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You mean like this:
beating-a-dead-horse.gif
 
We can agree to disagree, but there isn't anything wrong with a good tech. discussion particularly when the sides disagree. That's what good engineering is about, if everything was simple it wouldn't be fun!
 
ItsaRuck! said:
Yeah, there's a point where both sides of an argument can only go so far, then it gets stuck in the mud.
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...in this case it's stuck in the tank...LoL!
 
Here's a link that is semi-related to this thread dealing with knock limited compression ratio and ethanol blends. There is some info in there about fuel efficiency with ethanol blends (varying octane levels like we were discussing).

http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2010-01-0619.pdf
 
Its a case by case basis. My Spectra 5 gets about 20% better MPG with premium. My BMWs got better winter MPG on midgrade. My EVO did best on mixing ot 95 octane in the states. My Nissans have all consistantly done better on mixed to 93 octane. My Speed 6 noticed no difference between 91 octane and mixed to 95, except it showed a lot more insols in UOAs on anything above 91. All including my 2 race only vehicles showed more carbon at the exhaust tip from premium or higher octane fuels. The exception to this has been with current Nitrogen V Power formual from Shell. When run un octane enhanced it is producing less tail pipe soot than previous versions for me. This is in synch with their marketing that indicates that their add packs better survive the combustion process to clean leftovers upon exit.

Higher octane will often convinse the ECU to lean the mix, but as enviro controls are enhanced on cars (and likely as then have progressed to this point) for apps such as this generation of Kia engines higher octane may very well be counter productive. In NA apps higher octane will not be as beneficial as with forced simply due to induction temps that are higher in forced air situations especially at higher elevations with lower O2 densities.

For my Forte I will stick with premium until the engine is broken in according to oil analysis and the ideal oil viscocity is ID'd. Then I will start playing with fuel octane.
 
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